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Post by Incomplete.ReV on Nov 10, 2019 15:39:31 GMT
There's been some signal from some of our members that they might be interested in playing in a B-team for ReV. Hence, I'm making this thread as an opportunity for people to voice their interest. If there was a B-team that participated in BWCL, would you be interested in playing in that, rather than the regular squad in BWCL? I want to point out that it's little likely it will happen, especially since we likely don't have the admin capacity for it. In particular since I'll be resigning from the Management in Decemeber. But even so, I think it's important to listen to our clan members and then keep it in mind for the future. That it might be a goal we'd work for. To try to find enough admins to do the work, and players to fill the line ups. But for any plans to be made, it would also require that there is broad enough interest. So here's your chance! Would you be interested in playing for a B-team? Or maybe even run the B-team as an admin, cooperating with the Management overall? Speak your minds! <3 I also want to add that I've always been weary of a B-team, as I don't want there to be any division within our team. I want it to be one clan. However, it's always important to listen to one's members. Hence this thread.
(Edit: Added poll to forum post - psyCrowe)
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Post by psyCrowe on Nov 10, 2019 15:53:42 GMT
I like the idea and think it would be good for players that are unlikely to participate in clan wars - if there's a D team, maybe I'll be considered!? š It's all depending on numbers and activity imo. If we can get an established team of 7-8 players for each, then I think that's workable. I don't think it would harbour any division, as at the end of the day, we're all here together, trying to do the best for the team. Maybe we could base the teams on MMR, or promote players from within. We should always be looking to field our best team, so I don't think it's feasible to reward activity of members by putting them into a CW in which they're likely to lose. At least with a B team in BWCL, then it will be more evenly matched with competition, and players get the opportunity to perform in competitive conditions.
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Post by unleash on Nov 10, 2019 16:32:43 GMT
I like the idea of a b-Team in theory. Our top 4 is pretty clear cut at the moment. Especially in a league like STPL, where the skill level is very high in general, fielding a variety of players is cool but potentially a bit frustrating for some, who don't stand a chance when facing the top teams.
Activity and the willingness to be available on sundays for at least BWCL is definately a prerequisite. No use in having 2 players showing up regularly and the rest of the games being walkovers.
I'd be generally willing to manage a B-Squad but my problem is time. I generally only have time to Play myself on the weekends. If i were to manage a B-Squad I would definately need some support by someone who is available during the weekdays.
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Post by unleash on Nov 10, 2019 21:12:46 GMT
We have 6 votes so far but only 3 Posts. I feel like this is something people should talk about. There's no sense in just voting yes and then just watching others play. People voting yes should state why and, more importantly, if they can play / orga on a regular basis.
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Post by psyCrowe on Nov 10, 2019 21:30:24 GMT
Agreed with unleash. It's just a hypothetical situation really, if anything the poll can be removed. Majority yes votes don't mean it will happen, but discussion towards the idea is appreciated.
Just voting in the poll doesn't add much unless we get the reasoning behind the decision.
If further down the line it was to happen, I'd be rooting for both teams! <3
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Post by slowzerg on Nov 11, 2019 14:41:55 GMT
Just voted... Yeah, the reasons are clear and already described by psyCrowe:
- obviously low-rated players feel uncomfortable to take the places from our top-players which reduces our chances in competition
- for 1200-1400 MMR player a game with 2000 is not a competition either, since just mathematically winning chances with such rating difference are 1% or less. And B-division is damn strong!
About myself: can participate if a new team is in lower division, but probably not manage a team. |
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Post by InDi.ReV on Nov 11, 2019 17:02:41 GMT
I think having a B team itĀ“s good for all the stated above, still the objective of the team, has always been and will always be, in my opinion, to help members improve while having fun and an enjoyable atmosphere.
Considering the leagues we have at the moment, STPl and BWCL, a B team in STPL I donĀ“t think make much sense, since Rev-B would be playing the same top level players with a considerable skill gap difference that several of you stated that donĀ“t want to play already today.
For BWCL I think we have a higher variation in players than in STPL, and it has always been the case... Still I understand thereĀ“s some people who would enjoy competition, and maybe the friendly CWs are not enough. Since BWCL season has just started why not start with a B team that organizes several friendlies to see how people react and the level of involvement, and then for next BWCL season we can take a decision?
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Post by psyCrowe on Nov 11, 2019 17:19:45 GMT
Thanks for the input Slowzerg & Indi.
STPL is likely to be the top priority, so putting a ReV-B into it wouldn't really work I feel. As has been stated, the difference in skill is just far too big. Although there could be an argument where ReV-A participates in STPL, while ReV-B takes part in BWCL. That would set a clear distinction between A players and B players, and wouldn't cause any logistical problems - everyone would know their place.
That being said, I feel we have a strong enough team to play in the top division of BWCL, so would see it as a waste to reserve BWCL for the hypothetical B-team.
Again, I think the B-team would be great for BWCL. I'm not sure exactly who our opponents would be, but over the course of a season or two, it would eventually settle into a position. For me, the objective of the B-team would be centered more on the individuals involved improving as players, rather than the focus being winning the division. The team progressing through standings and possibly divisions would be a good marker of individuals success at getting better and would be a good reward.
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Post by szinkler on Nov 12, 2019 10:24:59 GMT
I don't think having a B team would be a real "divider" in ReV, so I don't see that as a problem. But based on what little I see from CWs, I think BWCL has barely enough players for ReV as it is, so creating an other team and not having walkovers would be really hard. We'd need some guarantees from players and from management as well. All in all if this part would work I'd go for it as the reasons behind are valid (a lower level player wants to play competetively as well but getting beaten all the time is not the best motivator (also bad for our clan from results point of view) and it's pretty hard to find any competition/tournament for your skill group in SC).
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Post by Steamy[ReV] on Nov 15, 2019 17:10:18 GMT
Hello guys sorry for the late reply
I do not think a B-Team would divide Rev. Just like with any club that is large enough to field multiple teams in competition it is natural to have both A and B teams. Just coming from a background in handball in Iceland, I did not feel a large gap between the A-Team and the B-Team, both supported one another, loaned players in times of trouble, practiced together and so on.
Very good point some of you guys have made here above, if we do end up having a B-Team, it would be necessary for us to have some other B-level teams to play that are not Gosu-level.
If it would be possible to field 1 team in the STPL next year, where our mission would be to send in the our best available players. Then we would field both A and B teams in BWCL, where the mission statement of the B team would be to take part for fun and help motivate lower level players (like myself) to improve.
Now I am relatively new in ReV not the best when it comes to the logistics and practical issues of fielding 2 teams instead of 1 team in the next BWCL. Other Clans seem to be doing something like that, for example Irk has both A and B teams playing in separate divisions of the BWCL.
_____
One can also look at the question of A and B team through another lens of two conflicting ideals which are:
We wish to be a clan where we field active lower level clan members to help them improve and have fun.
VS
We wish to focus on fielding our strongest players for the best results.
If we were to field a B-Team, we could possibly achieve both of these ideals at the same time. We could field our strongest available players in the STPL and the A team in BWCL and then we have the B Team to help motivate lower level players to improve.
It is inevitable that sometimes we would need to take someone from the B-team to play in the A-Team in competitions, for example if many of our highest level players want to take a vacation at the same time. So in those sorts of cases we might need to promote or loan players. I do not know how strict the rules are in BWCL.
Hey Unleash I think I might be able to assist you with management duties on weekdays. At least until March 2020. (I volunteer as tribute)
Best regards,
Steamy AKA SteamMachine
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Post by Incomplete.ReV on Nov 24, 2019 15:34:11 GMT
I've enjoyed a lot reading these posts. Especially the initatives to manage the teams! So figured I'd chip in a bit too, especially in regards to going through with it! I guess first of all, based on the feedback here it should be a goal to create a B-team. And that planning should be started right away. This will however be up to the Management to decide, as I don't want to force start projects just before I resign and can't contribute to seeing it through. So I guess it's more as a strong suggeestion. As is already mentioned, having a reliable roster that doesn't eat up the A team is required. As it is today, it can still be hard to find enough players to play. What we'd need is partly to engage our current members more and see that they appear for clan wars, and partly to recruit more members to join our clan. Our very top players reign quite supreme. At least uNLeaSh belongs in the A team, and Steamy is growing quite strong as well. However, I think as a long term investment, it could be good for ReV to "give them up" and have them handle the B-team. Even if it might likely cause some consequences for our current results, it's important to look towards the future. What's bad today, can be good tommorrow. And what's good today, might cause problems tommorrow. We also strictly don't know what the actual effect a B-team will have. For all we know, it might motivate the more docile players to take more part. Or it might prove an impossible task that ends with the removal of the B-team. But it's far much better to dare to try something likely to fail, than never try anything at all. The worst that happens is simply that we give too many walk overs, and then we are removed from BWCL. That's it. It doesn't kill ReV, it just means we've tried something, it didn't work, and then we know. So even if we could need uNLeaSh and Steamy in the A-team, it could be a good thing for ReV as a whole to leave them to handle the B-team. Assuming we can even spare them, of course. Furthermore, I guess some further recruiting would be required to form the B-team. Especially if we can't get enough current members to ensure they'll participate. We currently have a roster of 20 players in BWCL, and last CW NarsiL had to step in due to the lack of players. Handling clan wars is a lot of work in itself, but extra hard when people either seem disinterested or are unavailable. Or even if they feel they don't deserve to play. Show up, and if you're put into the line up, it means we want you to play. And that's that. But I feel I'm starting to write too incoherently, so I'll just sum up my thoughts: - Let's do the B-team! (imo, but up to the management) - Start planning right away! - Giving up A-teamers to handle it is fine for the sake of the greater good - Evaluate the need for recruitment, and go through with it If we start planning and set things in motion right away, we might even have the chance to have a team ready by next season of BWCL!  |
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![Steamy[ReV] Avatar](http://storage.proboards.com/6841675/avatar/VdBGEbXCWjL0EqUKlJqF.jpg)
